I am slowly, slowly learning traditional economics (David Friedman's "Hidden Order", Caplan's Substack) but Mises's "evenly rotating economy" in "Human Action" is the same kind of idea. I haven't thought the idea through, but is "perfect health" the same kind of thing? Under that rubric, all of our organs would be functioning optimally, supplied with all necessary nutrients and acting appropriately to all of the signals from the nerves, air, and blood stream. Is that an unattainable ideal, too?
The kind of health you describe seems unattainable, but it would be good if you could get there! I try to be healthy; it's a good goal and a good practice.
In perfect competition and perfect markets, the "perfect" is actually terrible, not merely unattainable. Aspiring to it is dangerous, not healthy.
Have you read 'Human Action'? I haven't, but I check the Mises Institute website a few times per week and enjoy the content there. I've heard of both David Friedman and Bryan Caplan, and I'm sure I've read pieces by each of them.
It has been a long time since I read "Human Action". I thought it was relatively easy to read, but my sister found it quite difficult. After a chapter or two she gave up, saying, "I hate Mises to pieces." It occurs to me that much of the quibbling about the existence or not of 'perfect competition,' 'perfect information,' etc., could be avoided by drawing supply and demand "curves" as shown in economics graphics with wide highlighter bands instead of dark narrow pen lines. But that way lies lack of precision, ambiguity, and...imperfection.
Supply and demand curves are simplifications of a complex system. They also merely attempt to capture a snapshot of a moment, rather than anything dynamic over a timespan. In the real world with real humans and real resources, demand curves shift, as do supply curves, so your suggestion of drawing with wide bands could capture some of this uncertainty. But, like you described, actually understanding reality is an "imperfection" in many flavors of economics study.
My perfect world definitely holds some "imperfections" and I'm happy with it that way. What's "perfect" for me would be very imperfect for someone else I think. Sometimes the imperfect can be perfectly suited for the moment as it is often cheaper, quicker and works just fine, which is best when time is of the essence and some particular resource is temporarily in scarce supply or not at hand when speed is the need. Someone's idea of perfect can be stifling rather than comfortable. You can think of the Nazi's idea of perfection and shudder, the trains would certainly run on time though.
Welcome, Dan! And thanks for checking out the podcast with Drew and ordering my book. I'd like to know what you think of the book -- good or bad -- after you've had a chance to read it 🙏
Thank you, Dominic. I hadn’t thought about it like that before, but it makes a lot of sense. Not many of us like chaos or uncertainty, but life is chaotic and uncertain. And, as far as I can see, those trying to impose “order” just create more chaos and uncertainty, until everyone is too afraid to speak out and life becomes rigid and contained.
I am Christian and I am fairly sure that God wants us to live life with abundance and joy. A perfect world, as you describe it, seems the opposite of that. I also like to think that Jesus had a sense of humour, and loved a good gathering with all his friends, swapping stories over a few glasses of wine.
John Pavlovitz calls his Substack “A Beautiful Mess”, and that sounds perfect to me.
I brought up the order-chaos problem in my book, which prompted my discussion with Drew Treglia on his podcast. I got more into the depths of human nature and uncertainty in an article a couple of months ago, in which I also described our human nature as "messy": "Liberty & Human Nature" https://goodneighborbadcitizen.substack.com/p/liberty-and-human-nature
I'm with you on God providing us with joy and good things in abundance. The "perfect" world of the economists' "perfect competition" and "perfect markets" has none of what the Gospels show us about growing in virtue and striving for a perfecting of our souls.
Lurking is good! I endorse lurkery of my Substack 😅
I've gotten alerts that some readers in the U.K. have ordered my book via Amazon's on-demand book printing. I imagine a shop local to you might have connections to Amazon distributors, or to similar at Barnes & Noble or Lulu. Let me know if you succeed in obtaining a copy!
I am slowly, slowly learning traditional economics (David Friedman's "Hidden Order", Caplan's Substack) but Mises's "evenly rotating economy" in "Human Action" is the same kind of idea. I haven't thought the idea through, but is "perfect health" the same kind of thing? Under that rubric, all of our organs would be functioning optimally, supplied with all necessary nutrients and acting appropriately to all of the signals from the nerves, air, and blood stream. Is that an unattainable ideal, too?
The kind of health you describe seems unattainable, but it would be good if you could get there! I try to be healthy; it's a good goal and a good practice.
In perfect competition and perfect markets, the "perfect" is actually terrible, not merely unattainable. Aspiring to it is dangerous, not healthy.
Have you read 'Human Action'? I haven't, but I check the Mises Institute website a few times per week and enjoy the content there. I've heard of both David Friedman and Bryan Caplan, and I'm sure I've read pieces by each of them.
It has been a long time since I read "Human Action". I thought it was relatively easy to read, but my sister found it quite difficult. After a chapter or two she gave up, saying, "I hate Mises to pieces." It occurs to me that much of the quibbling about the existence or not of 'perfect competition,' 'perfect information,' etc., could be avoided by drawing supply and demand "curves" as shown in economics graphics with wide highlighter bands instead of dark narrow pen lines. But that way lies lack of precision, ambiguity, and...imperfection.
Mises Pieces would be a great name for a candy 😅
Supply and demand curves are simplifications of a complex system. They also merely attempt to capture a snapshot of a moment, rather than anything dynamic over a timespan. In the real world with real humans and real resources, demand curves shift, as do supply curves, so your suggestion of drawing with wide bands could capture some of this uncertainty. But, like you described, actually understanding reality is an "imperfection" in many flavors of economics study.
My perfect world definitely holds some "imperfections" and I'm happy with it that way. What's "perfect" for me would be very imperfect for someone else I think. Sometimes the imperfect can be perfectly suited for the moment as it is often cheaper, quicker and works just fine, which is best when time is of the essence and some particular resource is temporarily in scarce supply or not at hand when speed is the need. Someone's idea of perfect can be stifling rather than comfortable. You can think of the Nazi's idea of perfection and shudder, the trains would certainly run on time though.
That was the old observation about Mussolini's Italy, too, if I remember correctly: He made the trains run on time!
Correct.
I enjoyed your interview with Drew.
I ordered a copy of your book.
Welcome, Dan! And thanks for checking out the podcast with Drew and ordering my book. I'd like to know what you think of the book -- good or bad -- after you've had a chance to read it 🙏
Thank you, Dominic. I hadn’t thought about it like that before, but it makes a lot of sense. Not many of us like chaos or uncertainty, but life is chaotic and uncertain. And, as far as I can see, those trying to impose “order” just create more chaos and uncertainty, until everyone is too afraid to speak out and life becomes rigid and contained.
I am Christian and I am fairly sure that God wants us to live life with abundance and joy. A perfect world, as you describe it, seems the opposite of that. I also like to think that Jesus had a sense of humour, and loved a good gathering with all his friends, swapping stories over a few glasses of wine.
John Pavlovitz calls his Substack “A Beautiful Mess”, and that sounds perfect to me.
Welcome, and thanks for the kind words!
I brought up the order-chaos problem in my book, which prompted my discussion with Drew Treglia on his podcast. I got more into the depths of human nature and uncertainty in an article a couple of months ago, in which I also described our human nature as "messy": "Liberty & Human Nature" https://goodneighborbadcitizen.substack.com/p/liberty-and-human-nature
I'm with you on God providing us with joy and good things in abundance. The "perfect" world of the economists' "perfect competition" and "perfect markets" has none of what the Gospels show us about growing in virtue and striving for a perfecting of our souls.
Thank you so much for your reply. I have been following you for a while but was just lurking.
I’ll ask my local book shop here in the UK if they can order your book for me. It sounds really interesting.
Lurking is good! I endorse lurkery of my Substack 😅
I've gotten alerts that some readers in the U.K. have ordered my book via Amazon's on-demand book printing. I imagine a shop local to you might have connections to Amazon distributors, or to similar at Barnes & Noble or Lulu. Let me know if you succeed in obtaining a copy!
That made me smile, thank you. My local book shop doesn’t have any connection with Amazon, so I might have to hold my nose and visit the site.
Ordered via Lulu 😊
🙏 ✝️